- Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:02 pm
#2015
ISDCF Main Meeting Notes – October 22, 2015
Upcoming Meetings
Friday October 30, 2015 - Call in for Plugfest planning.
Plugfest November 9/10, 2015 - Deluxe Hollywood
Wednesday November 11 main meeting - Old Location at Warner Bros.
Thursday January 21, 2016 main meeting - Probably NOT WB - probably Universal
Wednesday March 2 or 9, 2016 main meeting (maybe a SMPTE week problem)
Part 1: General Reporting
Housekeeping:
• Antitrust Disclaimer – The official antitrust guidelines are posted on our website and are linked from the main ISDCF page. A short verbal overview of guidelines was given.
• Thanks to Qube for lunch.
Upcoming: Paramount for November '15
CineCert January '16, Dolby March '16
• Thank you to Warner Bros. for the facilities and parking.
• Thank you to Universal for support of the Chairman.
• Thank you to Inter-Society for providing the funding for notes, travel, general expenses and admin support.
• Thank you to Sony/for the coffee and bagels
• Thursday March 2 or 9, 2016 was selected for meeting (depending on SMPTE meeting schedule.)
• Meeting notes from September '15 was reviewed and approved.
• Note that we will have a new location for our meetings starting in January - across the 134 in a Warner Bros. facility (NOT for November).
* Chatham House Rule:
* When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that of any other participant, may be revealed.
Attendance is at end of these notes.
Action Items from October 22, 2015
1. Confirm date for March meeting (depending on SMPTE)
2. Chis W. will update SMPTE-DCP material in Test Package B Version 2.0 after final MCA info has been updated (and send a USB stick to Jerry).
3. For plugfest:
1. Nick M / Steve L - Create a disc image that contains LOTS of content types for ingest testing. [SMPTE-DCP (test content A/B/B version 2.0 in both 5.1 and 7.1), Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, Barco Escape, ScreenX, Dolby Vision DCP, and some non-DCP content including: a word document, a .jpeg document, a .tiff document, a .pdf document]
2. Request small packages from Dolby, Barco, DTS, ScreenX for inclusion in the test package.
3. Create test content showing problems with subtitles on trailers for next plugfest (November '15) Jim W.
4. Jerry will ask TMS providers to participate in Plugfest
5. Pierre will provide Jerry/Chris with publishable pages for CPL metadata for FLM of registry of XML information for the digital cinema naming chart.
6. Add new language to digitalcinemanamingconvention.com that indicates not everything is described in the name. (Chris)
7. Bill Hogan and Ernie Sheldon will work with Academy to change their description of aspect ratios - away from full container.
8. Jerry to liaison with USC for education for making DCP - Elizabeth Daly?
9. Bill Hogan to talk to RIT about a course in DCP.
10. Organize an HPA Tech Retreat round table? Something on the main program?
11. IP to Standard phone converter needed.
Unresolved Action Items from prior meetings
• Jerry/Nick/Ernie prepare a draft recommended practice for ingest behavior for TMS/Servers.
• Create new test content - Test Content B - with Atmos style data (Dean)
• ISDCF should have a recommended practice for zip / tar content to create drives - for test purposes - NOT for distribution to theaters. Dean? Nick? Steve?
• Ioan to provide the latest version of feature sound level measurement for posting on-line after September TC meeting. Dean
• Update “Recommended Practices for SMPTE-DCP Authoring” document to include in posted technical papers at ISDCF (Jerry, John H, Steve L)
Part 2: Real Work
Action Item Review from last meetings…
Updated Digital Cinema Naming chart has been posted to ISDCF site - current version on the official site is slightly out of date.
Radoslay has posted content for subtitle rendering and tests have been made (updated links on ISDCF site for test content)
SMPTE-DCP test package B almost finalized (MCA numbers need to be fixed) (updated links on ISDCF site for test content)
SMPTE-DCP
The movie “Finest Hours” in January is planned to be issued in SMPTE-DCP. Norway and Holland for “Finest Hours” SMPTE-DCP as well. This should be with feature set similar to Test Package B (including CPL metadata and markers). Other titles are being considered, HOWEVER if other studios don't step up to release content, this studio may wait on additional titles.
Paramount had planned to release a title in October, but that title has slipped to January - no update due to lack of attendance at this meeting.
All other studios interested, but nothing planned at this time.
The Test Package B, Version 2.0 is testing well at this time. [Could be called Test Package B' (B-Prime).] Problems detected so far are known issues with the authoring, not due to field hardware/software issues. Things are looking good!
Current Test content is located at:
http://isdcf.com/SMPTE-DCP-Content/SMPT ... _SMPTE.zip
http://isdcf.com/SMPTE-DCP-Content/SMPT ... _SMPTE.zip
These are close to final, but still have some internal details to be “fixed,” but should work just fine on all systems.
Test Package B Version 2SMPTE DCPAudio SMPTE Configuration 4 - with Audio in ISDCF Interop LayoutSubtitles (no entry point duration)CPL Metadata - including MCA descriptorClosed CaptionsOpen CaptionsMarkersRatings3D subtitlesTKRAudio track file includes MCA labelsMastering can do these, Playback doesn't crash and may use the feature.
Subtitle Sync Test Content (Radoslov).
http://isdcf.com/SMPTE-DCP-Content/sub_ ... ew_one.rar
(Four packages - for testing on both projector rendered and server rendered.) We will use this content at the plugfest. Some testing has been done with results reported - generally good results (we will talk about the expectations at the plugfest). It has to do with the entry point on the subtitle files.
“Walled Garden” SMPTE-DCP expectations
“Take what you like and throw away the rest.”
Content on single drive / multiple folders (one CPL per folder) Including: Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, 5.1, 7.1, Interop-DCP , Barco Escape, ScreenX, word document, jpeg, tiff, pdf, Dolby Vision DCP, fox timed text multi-reel test. This will be prepared by Deluxe/Technicolor on a single drive for the plugfest.
Note: some servers/TMS systems scan the entire drive for suitable files and when a drive has thousands of TIFF files it can slow down ingest. This is NOT a fundamental issue, but a design “feature.” We will not add this to the test content.
Plugfest Planning - November 9/10, 2015 - Deluxe Hollywood
What needs to be prepared?
1. Walled Garden Test content on single drive / multiple folders (one CPL per folder)
2. Test Content B v2.0 (5.1 and 7.1)
3. JDCF subtitle testing (video record only)
4. Eikon 3D subtitle test (variable Z) Jim Whittlesey
5. High Frame Rate test content 2D60, 2D120, 3D60 with subs/etc.
There is a desire for 3D subs with changing Z during a single subtitle presentation (as opposed to a fixed Z for each subtitle). There was a desire to get test content to demonstrate this concept. Jim Whittlesey stepped up to create test content.
(Fun Fact: 30%-50% of current 3D movies use moving Z for each subtitle for burned in subtitles.)
Event being planned for theatrical mix of “live” content (video feed) with DCP packages with 3D60. Jim Carbonetti may provide test content for this plugfest… Discussion on how the switch between “live” and DCP… not sure how it's going to work. February time frame for the show (Fathom presentation). Jim may bring content to the plugfest and may test the switchover.
(Lunch Break)
Scheduled a plugfest call for Friday October 30 at 8:30am.
Naming Convention - revisited
Need to add to the naming convention to include Dolby Vision. Modified
There was suggestion to include a few new pages to the website that gives details for CPL metadata that includes the extension of FLM MXF details as new content types are added. Pierre will draft a page / pages to consider. It may be only proprietary data that are extensions that are outside of SMPTE documents.
Some discussion on the use of proprietary data that is part of the CPL metadata being documented in any posted document. No final resolution and interested parties will consider the recommendations and will comment on the draft documents that are shared to be posted.
We have run out of space in the traditional naming convention. Need for something to the REGULAR naming convention that says, basically, “this name does not reflect all the details of this content, see the CPL metadata.” We think we can add to the front page of the digital cinema naming convention. It would be an additional paragraph:
The prescribed name doesn't necessarily reflect all attributes of the referenced presentation. More information may be found in the CPL metadata.
Forensic marks in dual projectors
We continue to look for solutions to the problem of multiple IMB's / multiple projector embedding multiple forensic marks into a single image on the screen. The problem is two overlaying forensic marks. Any input can be sent to the dci.info@dcimovies.com email address.
Immersive Audio
SMPTE: Very active - can not be discussed in this public forum. Contact Pete Lude or a participant in the SMPTE working group 25css.
Still issues in Making DCP's for independent Film Makers
Amazing number of errors made - From wrong aspect ratios to bad subtitles to following the Academy 2048x1080 requirements (full container). The document is posted in the meeting folder. It's still a mess out there in the real world.
A need for a book on “so you want to make a DCP?” or “So you want to make a movie and distribute via DCP - a how-to guide to get it right.” No clear way to provide education.
One idea floated was to REQUIRE a signed DCP. Not embraced by most participants.
Is there a chance to connect with an academic link (i.e. USC/RIT) to help educate upcoming filmmakers. Action: Jerry to connect with Elizabeth Daly. Bill Hogan may contact RIT.
Topic for HPA Tech Retreat round table.
FLM-x
SMPTE process going well. End of 2015 anticipated a almost-final draft. It will be off the list for next meeting - tell us when it's done.
70mm film
Filmmaker releasing 70mm film prior to and a different cut than Digital Cinema. Interesting development.
XLM schema
There are encouraring signs that SMPTE is working on making openly available XML documents defined in SMPTE engineering documents. (The engineering documents will presumably remain for sale .) We will get post link when available. Perhaps an on-line schema validation service would be helpful (after the meeting many links were shared).
Recommended practice for subtitles
Better if subtitles are split into reels. Large files cause problems to the installed base.
Upcoming Meetings
Friday October 30, 2015 - Call in for Plugfest planning.
Plugfest November 9/10, 2015 - Deluxe Hollywood
Wednesday November 11 main meeting - Old Location at Warner Bros.
Thursday January 21, 2016 main meeting - Probably NOT WB - probably Universal
Wednesday March 2 or 9, 2016 main meeting (maybe a SMPTE week problem)
Part 1: General Reporting
Housekeeping:
• Antitrust Disclaimer – The official antitrust guidelines are posted on our website and are linked from the main ISDCF page. A short verbal overview of guidelines was given.
• Thanks to Qube for lunch.
Upcoming: Paramount for November '15
CineCert January '16, Dolby March '16
• Thank you to Warner Bros. for the facilities and parking.
• Thank you to Universal for support of the Chairman.
• Thank you to Inter-Society for providing the funding for notes, travel, general expenses and admin support.
• Thank you to Sony/for the coffee and bagels
• Thursday March 2 or 9, 2016 was selected for meeting (depending on SMPTE meeting schedule.)
• Meeting notes from September '15 was reviewed and approved.
• Note that we will have a new location for our meetings starting in January - across the 134 in a Warner Bros. facility (NOT for November).
* Chatham House Rule:
* When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that of any other participant, may be revealed.
Attendance is at end of these notes.
Action Items from October 22, 2015
1. Confirm date for March meeting (depending on SMPTE)
2. Chis W. will update SMPTE-DCP material in Test Package B Version 2.0 after final MCA info has been updated (and send a USB stick to Jerry).
3. For plugfest:
1. Nick M / Steve L - Create a disc image that contains LOTS of content types for ingest testing. [SMPTE-DCP (test content A/B/B version 2.0 in both 5.1 and 7.1), Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, Barco Escape, ScreenX, Dolby Vision DCP, and some non-DCP content including: a word document, a .jpeg document, a .tiff document, a .pdf document]
2. Request small packages from Dolby, Barco, DTS, ScreenX for inclusion in the test package.
3. Create test content showing problems with subtitles on trailers for next plugfest (November '15) Jim W.
4. Jerry will ask TMS providers to participate in Plugfest
5. Pierre will provide Jerry/Chris with publishable pages for CPL metadata for FLM of registry of XML information for the digital cinema naming chart.
6. Add new language to digitalcinemanamingconvention.com that indicates not everything is described in the name. (Chris)
7. Bill Hogan and Ernie Sheldon will work with Academy to change their description of aspect ratios - away from full container.
8. Jerry to liaison with USC for education for making DCP - Elizabeth Daly?
9. Bill Hogan to talk to RIT about a course in DCP.
10. Organize an HPA Tech Retreat round table? Something on the main program?
11. IP to Standard phone converter needed.
Unresolved Action Items from prior meetings
• Jerry/Nick/Ernie prepare a draft recommended practice for ingest behavior for TMS/Servers.
• Create new test content - Test Content B - with Atmos style data (Dean)
• ISDCF should have a recommended practice for zip / tar content to create drives - for test purposes - NOT for distribution to theaters. Dean? Nick? Steve?
• Ioan to provide the latest version of feature sound level measurement for posting on-line after September TC meeting. Dean
• Update “Recommended Practices for SMPTE-DCP Authoring” document to include in posted technical papers at ISDCF (Jerry, John H, Steve L)
Part 2: Real Work
Action Item Review from last meetings…
Updated Digital Cinema Naming chart has been posted to ISDCF site - current version on the official site is slightly out of date.
Radoslay has posted content for subtitle rendering and tests have been made (updated links on ISDCF site for test content)
SMPTE-DCP test package B almost finalized (MCA numbers need to be fixed) (updated links on ISDCF site for test content)
SMPTE-DCP
The movie “Finest Hours” in January is planned to be issued in SMPTE-DCP. Norway and Holland for “Finest Hours” SMPTE-DCP as well. This should be with feature set similar to Test Package B (including CPL metadata and markers). Other titles are being considered, HOWEVER if other studios don't step up to release content, this studio may wait on additional titles.
Paramount had planned to release a title in October, but that title has slipped to January - no update due to lack of attendance at this meeting.
All other studios interested, but nothing planned at this time.
The Test Package B, Version 2.0 is testing well at this time. [Could be called Test Package B' (B-Prime).] Problems detected so far are known issues with the authoring, not due to field hardware/software issues. Things are looking good!
Current Test content is located at:
http://isdcf.com/SMPTE-DCP-Content/SMPT ... _SMPTE.zip
http://isdcf.com/SMPTE-DCP-Content/SMPT ... _SMPTE.zip
These are close to final, but still have some internal details to be “fixed,” but should work just fine on all systems.
Test Package B Version 2SMPTE DCPAudio SMPTE Configuration 4 - with Audio in ISDCF Interop LayoutSubtitles (no entry point duration)CPL Metadata - including MCA descriptorClosed CaptionsOpen CaptionsMarkersRatings3D subtitlesTKRAudio track file includes MCA labelsMastering can do these, Playback doesn't crash and may use the feature.
Subtitle Sync Test Content (Radoslov).
http://isdcf.com/SMPTE-DCP-Content/sub_ ... ew_one.rar
(Four packages - for testing on both projector rendered and server rendered.) We will use this content at the plugfest. Some testing has been done with results reported - generally good results (we will talk about the expectations at the plugfest). It has to do with the entry point on the subtitle files.
“Walled Garden” SMPTE-DCP expectations
“Take what you like and throw away the rest.”
Content on single drive / multiple folders (one CPL per folder) Including: Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, 5.1, 7.1, Interop-DCP , Barco Escape, ScreenX, word document, jpeg, tiff, pdf, Dolby Vision DCP, fox timed text multi-reel test. This will be prepared by Deluxe/Technicolor on a single drive for the plugfest.
Note: some servers/TMS systems scan the entire drive for suitable files and when a drive has thousands of TIFF files it can slow down ingest. This is NOT a fundamental issue, but a design “feature.” We will not add this to the test content.
Plugfest Planning - November 9/10, 2015 - Deluxe Hollywood
What needs to be prepared?
1. Walled Garden Test content on single drive / multiple folders (one CPL per folder)
2. Test Content B v2.0 (5.1 and 7.1)
3. JDCF subtitle testing (video record only)
4. Eikon 3D subtitle test (variable Z) Jim Whittlesey
5. High Frame Rate test content 2D60, 2D120, 3D60 with subs/etc.
There is a desire for 3D subs with changing Z during a single subtitle presentation (as opposed to a fixed Z for each subtitle). There was a desire to get test content to demonstrate this concept. Jim Whittlesey stepped up to create test content.
(Fun Fact: 30%-50% of current 3D movies use moving Z for each subtitle for burned in subtitles.)
Event being planned for theatrical mix of “live” content (video feed) with DCP packages with 3D60. Jim Carbonetti may provide test content for this plugfest… Discussion on how the switch between “live” and DCP… not sure how it's going to work. February time frame for the show (Fathom presentation). Jim may bring content to the plugfest and may test the switchover.
(Lunch Break)
Scheduled a plugfest call for Friday October 30 at 8:30am.
Naming Convention - revisited
Need to add to the naming convention to include Dolby Vision. Modified
There was suggestion to include a few new pages to the website that gives details for CPL metadata that includes the extension of FLM MXF details as new content types are added. Pierre will draft a page / pages to consider. It may be only proprietary data that are extensions that are outside of SMPTE documents.
Some discussion on the use of proprietary data that is part of the CPL metadata being documented in any posted document. No final resolution and interested parties will consider the recommendations and will comment on the draft documents that are shared to be posted.
We have run out of space in the traditional naming convention. Need for something to the REGULAR naming convention that says, basically, “this name does not reflect all the details of this content, see the CPL metadata.” We think we can add to the front page of the digital cinema naming convention. It would be an additional paragraph:
The prescribed name doesn't necessarily reflect all attributes of the referenced presentation. More information may be found in the CPL metadata.
Forensic marks in dual projectors
We continue to look for solutions to the problem of multiple IMB's / multiple projector embedding multiple forensic marks into a single image on the screen. The problem is two overlaying forensic marks. Any input can be sent to the dci.info@dcimovies.com email address.
Immersive Audio
SMPTE: Very active - can not be discussed in this public forum. Contact Pete Lude or a participant in the SMPTE working group 25css.
Still issues in Making DCP's for independent Film Makers
Amazing number of errors made - From wrong aspect ratios to bad subtitles to following the Academy 2048x1080 requirements (full container). The document is posted in the meeting folder. It's still a mess out there in the real world.
A need for a book on “so you want to make a DCP?” or “So you want to make a movie and distribute via DCP - a how-to guide to get it right.” No clear way to provide education.
One idea floated was to REQUIRE a signed DCP. Not embraced by most participants.
Is there a chance to connect with an academic link (i.e. USC/RIT) to help educate upcoming filmmakers. Action: Jerry to connect with Elizabeth Daly. Bill Hogan may contact RIT.
Topic for HPA Tech Retreat round table.
FLM-x
SMPTE process going well. End of 2015 anticipated a almost-final draft. It will be off the list for next meeting - tell us when it's done.
70mm film
Filmmaker releasing 70mm film prior to and a different cut than Digital Cinema. Interesting development.
XLM schema
There are encouraring signs that SMPTE is working on making openly available XML documents defined in SMPTE engineering documents. (The engineering documents will presumably remain for sale .) We will get post link when available. Perhaps an on-line schema validation service would be helpful (after the meeting many links were shared).
Recommended practice for subtitles
Better if subtitles are split into reels. Large files cause problems to the installed base.